my recent & other staff's termination at my church has come as a shock to many in our church community. in listening and talking to many (congregation members and fellow staff members) i kept hearing sayings like "this felt like a business decision" or "i'd expect this in a business." it is a common saying in these scenarios and to me it is totally expected.
the methodist church is based around its committee structures and the people who make up the decision makers are laity giving their time in ministry and not ministry professionals by any mark. they are business people.. it is what they know.
as i see it though, there is a fundamental issue with bringing business practices into the church.
- the people in your church are your consumers
- the people in your church are your investors
- the people in your church are your workers/employees
think about it… that cycle doesn't work in a business plan, why do we think it'd work in church?
looking at the people in your church this way has to say that a pure business practice doesn't work. yes, business practices can translate and help, but just cutting and pasting into any/many instance and some decisions are heading down a slippery slope & a bad response.
"but the church is a business!.." true in many ways, but people want it & need it to be different. i think Christ would want it that way as well.
i don't have a great solution at the moment to move away from sayings like this, but i share this little spot light on where a root problem lies so that some of you with more intelligent minds can turn this around as well.
OMG, Gav, the church and church orgs are SOOOO bad at this (the adopting of “business practices”…..they cannot seem to help themselves from falling into “cutting and pasting” practices from that business world)
I think they do not know how to avoid that even as they insist that they are merely being “instructed” by secular practices. It’s kind of like the problem of money.
OMG, Gav, the church and church orgs are SOOOO bad at this (the adopting of “business practices”…..they cannot seem to help themselves from falling into “cutting and pasting” practices from that business world)
I think they do not know how to avoid that even as they insist that they are merely being “instructed” by secular practices. It’s kind of like the problem of money.
Let us accept the idea that the church is a business because it is. The only problem is that the bottom line for the church can never be measured here on earth. IF the business of the church is to save souls, then the only accounting will be long after we are gone.
We don’t seem to understand that.
There are so many people who are more concerned about the operation of the building that they forget that it is the people in the building that are the reason for the building.
So we look to cut expenses when the income begins to disappear when we should be looking at ways to get the people. It may mean that certain things, like staff for youth and such, have to stay on because that is where the people are.
I hope that things go well for you and your church finds the path real quick.
In peace and with Christ,
Tony
Let us accept the idea that the church is a business because it is. The only problem is that the bottom line for the church can never be measured here on earth. IF the business of the church is to save souls, then the only accounting will be long after we are gone.
We don’t seem to understand that.
There are so many people who are more concerned about the operation of the building that they forget that it is the people in the building that are the reason for the building.
So we look to cut expenses when the income begins to disappear when we should be looking at ways to get the people. It may mean that certain things, like staff for youth and such, have to stay on because that is where the people are.
I hope that things go well for you and your church finds the path real quick.
In peace and with Christ,
Tony
Gavin: I totally agree with Tony. We must look at the people the church employs as family, not employees. We do not cut loose family members when income goes down. We pull together to find a way to make ends meet until things turn around. So sorry to hear that you and your family are caught in the middle. Our prayers!
Gavin: I totally agree with Tony. We must look at the people the church employs as family, not employees. We do not cut loose family members when income goes down. We pull together to find a way to make ends meet until things turn around. So sorry to hear that you and your family are caught in the middle. Our prayers!
A few things I like to point out whenever this topic comes up:
A) people in churches like to pretend they’re using business best practices, when in reality they put them into practice with a degree of ineptitude that would only be seen in failing businesses. For whatever reason, church often brings the crazy out in people that would never come out elsewhere, or be tolerated elsewhere–especially amongst leaders.
B) Christians should be careful when throwing around words like “business” and in adopting models that are not necessarily grounded in values consistent with the Gospel. The root of our word business is, in fact, “Busy-ness” which refers to something that was listed as a sin/vice in benedictine monasticism. The earliest definition was, according to the Oxford English Dictionary: “Anxiety, solicitude, care; distress, uneasiness” and around 1300 it was used to translate a familiar admonition of our Lord: “‘Martha, Martha’..‘In mikel bisenes ert thou’”…
Often when people try to import business practices into the church, we fail at bringing in efficiency, focus and other positive habits that we might learn from, and succeed only at bringing that old underlying anxiety into the church, spreading it around and increasing our distance from kingdom work, all the while stroking egos and reinforcing the “crazy” and sometimes unethical behavior and decision-making that, as I said before, wouldn’t be tolerated under other circumstances or in other walks of life.
This isn’t the place for it, but I’m keeping a list of things that religious organizations either 1) do on a regular basis or 2) don’t do as a benefit granted them, that are in each case, to my mind unethical… maybe I’ll blog it some time.
A few things I like to point out whenever this topic comes up:
A) people in churches like to pretend they’re using business best practices, when in reality they put them into practice with a degree of ineptitude that would only be seen in failing businesses. For whatever reason, church often brings the crazy out in people that would never come out elsewhere, or be tolerated elsewhere–especially amongst leaders.
B) Christians should be careful when throwing around words like “business” and in adopting models that are not necessarily grounded in values consistent with the Gospel. The root of our word business is, in fact, “Busy-ness” which refers to something that was listed as a sin/vice in benedictine monasticism. The earliest definition was, according to the Oxford English Dictionary: “Anxiety, solicitude, care; distress, uneasiness” and around 1300 it was used to translate a familiar admonition of our Lord: “‘Martha, Martha’..‘In mikel bisenes ert thou’”…
Often when people try to import business practices into the church, we fail at bringing in efficiency, focus and other positive habits that we might learn from, and succeed only at bringing that old underlying anxiety into the church, spreading it around and increasing our distance from kingdom work, all the while stroking egos and reinforcing the “crazy” and sometimes unethical behavior and decision-making that, as I said before, wouldn’t be tolerated under other circumstances or in other walks of life.
This isn’t the place for it, but I’m keeping a list of things that religious organizations either 1) do on a regular basis or 2) don’t do as a benefit granted them, that are in each case, to my mind unethical… maybe I’ll blog it some time.
Gavin,
So sorry– and shocked really– to hear of your termination.
May the church open other doors somewhere and soon for you to serve and lead.
And in the meantime– keep those of us who know and care about you posted about any ways we can help.
Peace in Christ,
Taylor Burton-Edwards
Gavin,
So sorry– and shocked really– to hear of your termination.
May the church open other doors somewhere and soon for you to serve and lead.
And in the meantime– keep those of us who know and care about you posted about any ways we can help.
Peace in Christ,
Taylor Burton-Edwards
tony, you make to much sense brother!
jody, i actually understood everything you said.. and i didn’t have use my theology terms book. i’ve come such a long way. &:~)
tbe, i’d love to meet up and chat if you are down. have some specific questions that i am asking of folks in my discernment process to where God wants me.
tony, you make to much sense brother!
jody, i actually understood everything you said.. and i didn’t have use my theology terms book. i’ve come such a long way. &:~)
tbe, i’d love to meet up and chat if you are down. have some specific questions that i am asking of folks in my discernment process to where God wants me.
Hi, Gavin – I just found your blog, and I’m very sorry to hear about your termination. I grew up in the UMC, and have been to other churches since then, and let me tell you, the “business” deal is a problem everywhere as far as I can tell. I pray that the “real” church of Christ can survive, and that I can find it! I know it’s there, under the surface, in every congregation. Hopefully it will become more prominent.
Hi, Gavin – I just found your blog, and I’m very sorry to hear about your termination. I grew up in the UMC, and have been to other churches since then, and let me tell you, the “business” deal is a problem everywhere as far as I can tell. I pray that the “real” church of Christ can survive, and that I can find it! I know it’s there, under the surface, in every congregation. Hopefully it will become more prominent.
I agree that the church isn’t a for profit business (or even a non-profit) BUT we must be good/better stewards of the resources God allows us to manage. Sometimes that means making hard decisions.
One of the things that makes my skin crawl is when some of the finance committee type folks refer to our offerings as revenue or income.
I agree that the church isn’t a for profit business (or even a non-profit) BUT we must be good/better stewards of the resources God allows us to manage. Sometimes that means making hard decisions.
One of the things that makes my skin crawl is when some of the finance committee type folks refer to our offerings as revenue or income.
Assumption #1: members as customers — that is where the trouble begins. The customer is the mission field. How well are we serving it? How can we serve it better?
Clergy and lay leaders: please do not let us treat members as customers!
Assumption #1: members as customers — that is where the trouble begins. The customer is the mission field. How well are we serving it? How can we serve it better?
Clergy and lay leaders: please do not let us treat members as customers!
While I agree with the direction of your comment, I’d like to take issue with the business of the church being the saving of souls. I’d say the business of the church is, rather, the worship of God and living into God’s Kingdom.
While I agree with the direction of your comment, I’d like to take issue with the business of the church being the saving of souls. I’d say the business of the church is, rather, the worship of God and living into God’s Kingdom.
Well put, Matt! Church members are, in a sense, the “employees.” the consumer of what the church offers is either God or the unchurched, or perhaps if Matthew 25 is any indication, both.
Well put, Matt! Church members are, in a sense, the “employees.” the consumer of what the church offers is either God or the unchurched, or perhaps if Matthew 25 is any indication, both.